KAPWANI, THE INTERVIEW

This interview was conducted in Brooklyn, New York on the floor of a studio recording booth on May 19, 2022 at 5:36 PM. At 21, Kapwani is surrounded by love, support, collaborators, and management as she greets me. She’s amicable, even fresh out of her sleep. Her speaking voice hits your ear almost as softly and beautiful as her singing voice and her singing voice is very beautiful. Beaded locs frame the sultry songstress’s face. I have a lot to ask and Kapwani has plenty to say, from Beyonce to abstract art to graduating college to love and beyond. 

Najee AR Fareed: Hello, Who are you? How old are you? Where are you from? What do you do? 

Kapwani: I’m Kapwani. I’m an artist and a musician. Currently I’m in school at Georgia State. I’m a business finance major. But on the side, I do music and I love to sing. I’m 21, I’ll be 22 in August. 

Najee AR Fareed: What was the first thing you fell in love with? 

Kapwani: The first thing I fell in love with… in life period? 

Najee AR Fareed: Yeah, in life. 

Kapwani: I would say… I guess it’s corny to say music but it truly was music. It’s something that I’ve been doing for a very long time. I used to sing to myself when I was kid, in my room, quietly. Then slowly, as I got to school, I decided to join chorus. Then once I got to middle school, it just became a thing. Singing songs and stuff. I also love discovering new music too, like hearing other artists. I love to hear them make music and put it out. 

Najee AR Fareed: What sparked your love for music? 

Kapwani: Probably, me knowing I can sing. Singing is very healing for me. Once I knew I could sing, I was like, okay what else can I listen to? I just feel like music is a soundtrack for life. Music can invoke feelings of every emotions. It can completely capture what people go through. The yin and yang. The bad and the good. 

Najee AR Fareed: This is quick word association round. I say a word and you say the first thing that comes to your mind. 

Kapwani: Oh lawd. 

Najee AR Fareed: It’s not gonna be anything raunchy, nothing spicy. At least I don’t think so. First word, music. 

Kapwani: Hearts. 

NAF: song. 

K: words. 

NAF: singer. 

K: Beyonce. 

NAF: note

K: E major. 

NAF: love. 

K: life. 

NAF: Battle

K: Heartbreak. 

NAF: War. 

K: tough. 

NAF: See, great, that was pretty cool. 

K: That was my first time doing that, I was more worried about what I was gonna say. 

NAF: what are your short term goals? 

K: For right now, I’m just tryna put this album out. I don’t want to give the date, I want it to be a surprise. Only musically? 

NAF: Creatively. Or anything with your life I guess. 

K: What’s short? Could a year be short? 

NAF: A year could be short. A year could be long too. 

K: I wanna graduate school. That’s short, only two semesters [laughs]. I wanna learn how to start sampling and making soul chop beats and stuff. I don’t think it would take me very long. My friends make beats. I started but I broke my laptop, so that’s also a short term goal. Just get ableton and learn how to do that. 

NAF: Have you ever produced any of your own songs? 

K: No. 

NAF: Is that something you want to learn how to do? 

K: Yes. I also want to learn how to play the bass because I played the violin for about 7 years. 

NAF: What are your long term goals?

K: I hope my music can sustain me, to the point where I don’t have to work. If I can solely focus on myself. Another long term goal would be getting a house. I definitely want to have property. 

NAF: Where would you live? 

K: I know I want to live in Atlanta for sure. I was born in Philly. I moved to Atlanta when my parents split up. I would just go to my Dad’s house every summer. 

NAF: Yeah, I had that exact same experience. 

K: I don’t really like the north. I don’t wanna say that. It’s too clumped up for me. I need space. And the west coast is too dry. I really like Georgia. What’s another long term goal? I hope to travel more. I kinda am a traveler. I wanna go see Europe and India. And hopefully be a better me. Always excelling myself and surprising myself. 

NAF: What is the last song you played that is not your song? 

K: That’s easy [pulls out phone]. I played “The Root” by D’Angelo. 

NAF: That’s a good one. 

K: I love D’Angelo. 

NAF: If you could be a song, what song would you be? 

K: I would be “Intimate Friends” by Eddie Kendricks. 

NAF: I never heard that one. 

K: You should listen to it, it’s a very good song. 

NAF: I like Eddie Kendricks, mainly because I like the Temptations. It’s so much good music out there. I love discovering music that may be new to me but not to the world. I feel like music transports me to another place, mentally. 

K: It gives you serotonin! Gah damn, you can find inspration. It can remind you of time, of a certain time. You can make new memories with music. It’s very infinite. 

NAF: Music is like a vehicle almost. You can use it to transport yourself anywhere throughout time and space. I think that’s beautiful. 

NAF: If you had to pick a favorite album, what would it be? 

K: Just one? 

NAF: Just one. 

K: I love music and that’s so hard. But I will tell you one that’s stuck with me for a minute, for the past year. Couldn’t Wait To Tell You by Liv.e, that entire album chef’s kiss. 

NAF: That’s good. People normally pick an older album so that’s refreshing. 

K: she really did her thing on there! It’s a timeless album, it should’ve got more love than it got. It did receive a lot of love but it deserves a lot more. That’s music that I’ll be listening to when I’m 60. 

NAF: That kinda ties into my next question. What inspired your music taste? Who formed it? Who was listening to the things that you’re listening to now? 

K: Okay, so, I am African. I’m Tanzanian. My mom does not listen to a lot American music. Most of the time, I just heard what was on the radio. When it came to finding my own music, I found most of it on the internet. My uncle used to buy CDs. He had the College Dropout. I would listen to that. And I really fell in love with Beyonce at a really young age, I’d watch her on YouTube and TV. i used to like pop music a lot. Then I started to R&B a lot more. Around middle school I got into neo-soul. A lot Erykah Badu and India Arie. When I found out who Erykah Badu was, my brain was like what the fuck, who is she, I want to be like her. In high school I started listening to a lot mainstream rap. In college, now, I listen to lo-fi rappers. 

NAF: Like who? I be feeling like I’m too old to be knowing about these subgenres. 

K: Nah you’re good. Like Navy Blue, Mavi, Mike. All those type of rappers. That whole little overcast. I feel like they’ve been influential to me.  

NAF: I was saying I was too old then I was like “oh, I know all three of those guys.”

K: You know them, you’re not old. How old are you? 

NAF: I’m 26. 

K: You’re not old. 

NAF: It’s fine, I like getting old. Or older. 

K: Getting wisdom. Learn from the lessons of life. 

NAF: I feel like i’m better at everything than I was when I was 21, why would I want to be 21 again? 

NAF: What are four items to summon you? Like physical items. Like they put them in one of those hex circles, you’ll walk in through a portal. 

K: Oooh okay. Takis. Put some Takis in there. Of course my good ole mary jane. My cat, Peanut. And probably castor oil. 

NAF: Castor oil? 

K: Mhm. It’s very important. Actually imma change it to shea butter. Shea butter with frankincense. It smells just right. 

NAF: I be using shea butter with the pineapple scent. I really like it. In fact, I used it today. I can smell it on my fingers. But okay, that’s a good 4. 

K: Takis, weed, Peanut, and shea butter with frankincense. 

NAF: I feel like the hardest part would be finding your cat. 

[laughs] 

NAF: Is there any medium of art that you’re interested in that you haven’t engaged with yet? 

K: Abstract painting. Specifically abstract because I paint but I just be doodling stuff with the paint. I feel like abstract art is bunch of colors in a form but it has a feeling. I want to learn how to do that. 

NAF: Do you think that can be learned? 

K: Yeah, definitely, I just need to find time. 

NAF: I guess I’m really asking do you think it can be taught? 

K: No. I think abstract art is something that comes from within. And it’s not perfect, that’s why I like it. I don’t like things being too perfect. I can be a perfectionist with my own musical creations and stuff, but as far as that? I feel like you doing what you want to do. You going with the flow. At least that’s what abstract art would mean to me. 

NAF: Do you have abstract painters in mind in particular? 

K: My friend, Abby. Her instagram is @estazaria. She also directed my video, “Hello.” She does abstract painting and it’s very beautiful. 

NAF: What does self love mean to you? 

K: Having respect. Making sure the people around you have respect for you. Taking care of yourself. Eating, cleaning yourself, cleaning your space. Making sure you have a nice place to go home to. Getting my nails done and my lashes done and my hair done. That’s definitely self love to me. Talking to my family, at least for me. As you get older, it gets easier for time to just fly by. 

You may not talk to your mom for three weeks. That’s crazy. So everytime I talk to my mom or my little brother, I feel as though I am loving myself. 

NAF: Was there a process of learning to love yourself or was it easy for you? 

K: It was actually a process. I wouldn’t say I didn’t love myself but I accepted disrespect, I accepted people talking to me any kind of way. That’s not cool. Also, just with me having locs… I used to wear weave a lot. Sew-ins and allat. But when I first started my locs they were really short and ugly looking. I’m sorry, the ugly stage is an ugly stage. I know people say it’s beautiful but I felt ugly. Now I’m like a year in, a year and some change, and I have truly learned to love myself. Hair used to be a really big thing to me. Which is still is. I feel like if my hair looks ugly, I look ugly. But now I love myself. I can look myself in the mirror and say you don’t need nothing. 

NAF: I definitely get that. 

K: And it’s still a work in progress.

NAF: Always. 

K: I’m human. I’m always changing. I feel like I’m heading to many different places and when you’re doing that, you’re bound to change with the different perspectives. So it’s always a process to loving yourself. 

NAF: Kurt Vonnegut in his book, Sirens of Titan, came to the conclusion that the purpose of life is to love whoever is around to be loved. If you follow that, do you think you are serving life’s purpose? 

K: Yes. Fortunately. Yes. More than any other time in my life. Right now, the people I have around really do show me a lot of love and they keep my best interests in mind. And I very grateful for that and I hope they stay around for a long time. 

NAF: That’s nice. A lot of people feel like they’re going through life alone. 

K: I went through that period. I’d say 2020 and 2021, I felt alone. Very very alone. I would say from my sophomore year of college through 2021, I’d say life was very hard for me. But I kept faith. You said he said you gotta love the people around you, I came to the discernment that you gotta watch how people treat you for real. It’s gonna eventually reflect back to how you think about yourself. Once I started questioning the people around me like, “do I really want to be here?” “do I really like this person?” The universe and God started sending the right people to be around me. Also, always have a good backbone. Even if you be grateful for yourself. Love yourself and be better for yourself. Most things in life work out. [sings] You just gotta keep the faith!  

NAF: That’s real. Inspirational for real. I ‘ve struggled with feeling hella alone through many periods of my life, it’s happened to me a million times at this point. But especially when I first moved up to New York. It was super far away from my family and shit. Not knowing anybody, thinking back to the purpose thing, I didn’t think there was anybody around to love. Except for myself maybe. Even looking at myself, I felt like I was dodging mirrors. And if I did look at myself, it wasn’t out of love but vanity. So I started expressing that and expressing myself and it kind of recalibrated my mental and everything around. I stopped holding it in. That helped me a lot. 

K: Well do you know people now? 

NAF: Not really, I feel like my life has not changed very much from when I was in the dumps. My mindset about it has changed. I’m accepting it… I don’t want to say better, but more healthy. 

K: Everything takes time. 

NAF: Fasho. 

K: And I hope good people come around you because you seem like a very good person. 

NAF: Thanks, it’s good to seem like a good person. That’s flattering. 

NAF: What’s your favorite song of yours that you have released? 

K: That i’ve released? 

NAF: Yes. 

K: Probably “Hello.” Out of the songs that I have released. It’s my most recent and it is not my favorite song that I’ve made but probably my favorite that i’ve released. 

NAF: Do you have any plan for your next album set in stone? 

K: Lemme ask my manager. [peeks head out of booth] Can I say stuff about the album? [yeah] Okay well the album is ten songs long [Don’t drop the name].  I wasn’t  [laughs]. “Hello” is on it. I would say the album is an introduction to my life and my perception of love and people. 

NAF: That sounds interesting, I can’t wait to hear it. 

K: I think y’all gonna like it. It got a lot of sounds on it. 

NAF: Sounds? Like which ones? 

K: Mostly neo-soul. I like that a lot. I guess you can say like loops. Definitely some dancey songs on there. It’s gonna move ya. Definitely a dramatic song on there, some cinematic shit. And there’s a skit on there. I’ll give you that. Not a big skit, just a little something. 

NAF: I love skits. How do you feel about listening to albums in sequence vs out of sequence? 

K: I’d rather listen in sequence. But it depends on the genre for me. If I’m listening to an R&B album, I’m going to listen to it from top to bottom. But if it’s rap, I may skip around. There are so many different types of rap. 

NAF: Like who? 

K: Like Carti or YEAT or something. I will start at the beginning but I'd skip around and try to find my favorite songs, because I only listen to that type of music every so often. Only sometimes. 

NAF: A sometimesy connection. 

K: Yeah, but if i’m listening to Stevie Wonder, I would listen to his album from top to bottom. 

NAF: Oh definitely. I feel Stevie Wonder and his catalog, you can press play on anything it would be ridiculously good. 

K: I feel like everyone who was making music in the 70s was really eating for real, they was really in their bag. I’m trying to get into Jazz. 

NAF: This is actually kinda related. I be wanting to ask everybody about this. How do you feel about long songs? I guess a long song would be about seven minutes plus maybe? 

K: It depends on the artist’s executes it. Some people could have a seven minute song and it feels like a lot. But if you have a seven minute song like “Nights,” how Frank Ocean did that. 

NAF: Well that song is five minutes long. 

K: Five minutes isn't long to you? 

NAF: Five minutes is long. 

K: Or like “Pyramids”...

NAF: “Pyramids” is 9 minutes. That’s pretty long. 

K: See, that’s a long song. I’m tryna think of a long song that’s like… 

NAF: Bad? 

K: Yeah. 

NAF: You gotta put somebody on the spot? 

K: Not necessarily bad, but like you got to be in the mood to listen to it. I wanna say something like Kendrick Lamar. And I love Kendrick Lamar.  

NAF: [laughs] Nah, I get it. “Sing, About Me, I’m Dying of Thirst” is like 10 minutes. 

K: That’s a good song though. 

NAF: I agree, that’s a great song. It’s a great song. I love that song. 

K: But I don’t mind long songs. I think it’s our phones. You can only sit there and focus on something for so long. Especially after the pandemic or whatever. 

NAF: I feel like phones and streaming is speeding up everything and I hate it. 

K: I can’t think of a song off the top of my head that would demonstrate that. I appreciate long songs when they are executed well. As far as short songs? I do feel like it’s speeding up the music process and I don’t like that either. Well for one, the CEO of Spotify thinks artist should be putting out music every 30 days and I think that’s crazy. It’s crazy. If you are truly invested in music and you write your music, there is no way you’re putting music every thirty days. I mean, you can but it won’t be good work. You have to live. You have to go do things so you have stuff to talk about when you get to the studio or when you write a song. Things to talk about that people can actually relate to. It takes away some of the beauty. That’s where some of the beauty comes from, being able to take your experiences and transform them. If you just speed everything up, when do you have time to just cultivate something? You know? Does that make sense? At the same time, I will say that the thing I like about short songs is that you can say what you need to say in two minutes and people will get it. And also, it will be a really really good song. But a lot of short songs are transactional. It can’t be coming from the soul? Like why’d you do it. I guess maybe for fun. It is fun. But take your time. I feel like people should take their time.  

NAF: I was thinking about short songs, I was thinking like back to Frank Ocean. The song “Good Guy” is about a minute. Or under a minute. I think the last 5-10 seconds is like a skit or whatever. A kid talking. I think the song is so beautiful and so good. I feel like it hits its emotional crux very quickly. There’s a performance of it from 2017 at the FYF Festival that I like to listen to. It’s “Good Guy” but like 5 minutes long. And he’s just like song. 

K: That’s probably a song he needed to make longer. 

NAF: I don’t know, I felt like that’s hard to do. Maybe in the studio it's harder for him to replicate that emotional honesty he got out on stage. Or maybe he wanted that experience to be something special for his concert goers. Even though he never go on tour, that was like a festival. 

K: I don’t think imma ever be able to see him live. 

NAF: He’s doing Coachella next year but I doubt I’ll ever go to Coachella. 

K: Coachella would be an expensive trip. But I’d like to see Frank Ocean. 

NAF: I’d love to see Frank Ocean. What’s your dream musical collab? 

K: [thinks] The Alchemist. I wanna make something with him. If I could make something with him, that would be crazy. 

NAF: Are you gonna rap on his beat? 

K: Nah, I think with the type of music he makes, he could even make music for singers. 

NAF: Oh for sure. For sure. He’s so talented. 

K: Even his rap stuff, I don’t think I’m a rapper but my friends be saying I be rapping, I don’t think it would be IMPOSSIBLE for me to rap on his beat. I’d like to be better with my pen by then. 

NAF: He’s incredibly talented. 

K: Would be cool. 

NAF: I’m pretty sure he’s done it because he’s been in the industry so long and I’m just not hip to it, but I’d love to hear him produce some R&B and neo-soul. 

K: Has he? 

NAF: He’s been around so long, it’s hard to imagine that he hasn’t stepped into that realm yet. 

K: Yeah, that would be crazy if he hasn’t. 

NAF: Most producers would produce for whoever is making good music. Good producers want to work with people making good music. 

NAF: Freedom or free will? 

K: I would have to live without the other? 

NAF: Yes.  

K: [thinks] free will. Yeah for sure, it’s your choices. If you don’t have free will, you’re like a robot.  

NAF: Without free will, what do you have the freedom to fdo? 

K: Yeah. With free will, you can give yourself freedom. Based off your choices. 

NAF: What’s next? Other than the album. 

K: I got some videos on the way. I will be continuing to make music. I will continue to elevate. I want to get a band, that would be nice. 

NAF: Like a live band? 

K: Yeah. 

NAF: Like you’re part of the band? 

K: No, moreso for when I perform. And I would like to cultivate a band of musicians to help make my next project. 

NAF: I think live music is so fucking cool. I feel like it may be harder to do in today’s day and age. I guess because at one point it was a necessity. But now that it’s not, it’s like a luxury. 

K: To be completely honest, I don’t think it’s hard to do. I think this generation is just too lazy to just sit down and do it. That’s why all the old music sound better. They was playing it! They was actually playing it. I really love Fela Kuti. If you go listen to his songs, They be like ten to fifteen minutes but the band is playing for 15 minutes straight. And they’re not messing up and you’re moved the entire time. And I don’t know why. Well I do know why, we got all these computers and stuff. 

NAF: I feel like that’s part of the reason were longer. It’s harder to be like, we are about to get this live band and play live music for two minutes. You know? You might as well do five or seven minutes, you know? 

K: Aretha Franklin and Etta James were singing with live instruments. No one wants to do that anymore. That makes me sad. I need a band, so I can do that. 

NAF: It’s funny because I have negative musical talent and I’ve never wanted to make music but I have always wanted band merch of my own band. 

K: That would be cool. 

NAF: I say all the time that I would never be a rapper because I would suck. And I respect rap music too much to be a bad rapper. 

K: [laughs] More people should think like that. 

NAF: I respect it too much. And I don’t think I have the drive to do the work to go be good at it, it’s not erupting out of me, the urge to create music. I don’t have the drive to be like Kanye and work till my rhymes aren’t weak. Obviously Kanye’s starting point is better than my starting point but he worked and made himself better. I have that drive for other things, but not for being a rapper because its not what I want to do. I just respect rap music too much. Rock music though? I would make the worst rock music of all time and not care just to get some band merch. I would go out and be the shittiest lead singer. With rock music you don’t even have to know how to sing on key, you just gotta be able to make it sound cool. 

K: That’s true. I feel like with the innovation of music, you don’t need to be the best singer. And not because of autotune. Without the autotune. I don’t like perfect things. I like when people don’t sing in tune but they find a way to make it work. 

NAF: People on twitter be on SZA or Mariah The Scientist neck and shit and I’m like, both of them are so amazing at writing to me. And there are other musical qualities, like sonically, that makes me really appreciate what they’re doing. I don’t care that they can’t sing like Whitney Houston. Obviously what Whitney Houston does is beyond spectacular, but they can’t sing like Whitney Houston. I don’t care. They’re still making good music to me. 

K: Mariah The Scientist, I like some of her songs. I’m not too big on her music, cuz that’s just me but when I listen to music, I listen to what they’re saying. I almost always need to see the lyrics. She writes very good. Very very good. I didn’t listen to her for so long then I listened to one of her songs then I was like, “hold on,” she going in right now, like wait. They need to leave her alone. She’s singing, it’s live. It’s not gonna be perfect. Some people aren’t performers. Everyone can’t be Beyonce or Micheal Jackson. 

NAF: Exactly, it’s not like she came in and said she’s Beyonce. 

K: She don’t even on that rah rah shit. They just need to leave people alone. And SZA is actually a very good singer. It’s just that one year she was on tour and it was a lot on her vocal chords.

NAF: I remember she said she strained her vocal chords and she was just trying to find a way to perform anyway. 

K: That can be real dangerous. After she took a break, she’s been amazing. Perfect. 

NAF: I’ve never seen her live. I’ve seen the videos but yeah. 

K: I watched it on YouTube. Cuz I’m a nerd. 

NAF: That’s all I do on YouTube. I watch people do music. Talk about movies. Documentaries. Video essays. I wish I had the patience to get really good at video editing. I feel like I can make a good video essay. 

K: Video essay? What’s that? 

NAF: It’s like when you talk about a topic with accompanying graphics. I watch a lot about nerdy shit or art or music or fashion.. 

K: Oh, I know what those are, I just didn’t know they were called that. I know exactly what you talking about. I’ve watched some of those. 

NAF: I’m sure you have, they’re pretty popular on YouTube. 

K: I bet you could do it. 

NAF: I also, I hate having to listen to my voice. 

K: Oh that’s me. 

NAF: So that would be a real challenge. 

K: I don’t like having to listen to my voice either. I don’t like to listen to my music once it’s out. 

NAF: I feel like by the time it reaches audience ears, it would feel burnt out to you. 

K: I think it’s cuz I released it and now it’s not mine anymore. Technically it is, but now it’s in the eyes of the public and they can receive it in whichever way they want to. And the song is from a different place and time and I’m not there anymore. 

NAF: Last question and I will get out of your hair. Do you love the place you are in right now? 

K: Do I love it? 

NAF: Yes. 

K: Hmmmm. Yeah. I can’t complain. 

🦋

published May 26, 2022